1-Aug-90 06:47:07-MDT,8253;000000000000 Mail-From: KPETERSEN created at 1-Aug-90 06:27:25 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 1 Aug 90 06:27:24 MDT From: INFO-CPM-REQUEST@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Reply-To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: INFO-CPM Digest V90 #126 To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Message-ID: <900801062725.V90N126@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> INFO-CPM Digest Wed, 1 Aug 90 Volume 90 : Issue 126 Today's Topics: Availability of Apple CPM SW Speed adjustment on a TM101-4 what disk for an 80tk ds dd Tandon TM101-4 drive Z-System ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Jul 90 13:47:05 GMT From: motcid!wilner@uunet.uu.net (Corey S. Wilner) Subject: Availability of Apple CPM SW Message-ID: <4304@mint17.UUCP> I own an Apple //e computer w/128K RAM and, of course, a Z-80 card. I used to use Wordstar until Appleworks 3.0 came out and now that I have access to the 'net', I wanted to find out about Apple CPM stuff again. Can anyone answer a question or two for me: 1) What is the latest and greatest version of the operating system that I can get for the Apple. I heard rumors way back when that said there was going to be a multitasking OS for the Apple?! Also, where can I get the OS from? 2) What is a good source for Apple CPM software. Does someone have a catalog of SW available for the Apple out there? Does anyone even care about supporting the Apple CPM format? Anyone? Anyone? Thanks in advance. *********************************************** Corey S. Wilner | Give me a jingle: Motorola Cellular | ..!uunet!motcid!wilner 708-632-7206 | *********************************************** NOTE: DO NOT MAIL TO !uunet!motcid!red!wilner ^^^ We have been losing mail that way. To Japan I believe...no joke! *********************************************** If after 30 minutes of a card game you don't know who the rube is, you are! McAfee's Law of Physical Material Balance: Matter can be neither created nor destroyed. However, it can be lost! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 90 14:13:56 -0400 From: EUDOH%sctnve@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Subject: Speed adjustment on a TM101-4 Message-ID: <5A071F0D35050221-SCTNVE*EUDOH@sctnve> > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 19:21 CDT > From: LANCE TAGLIAPIETRA > Subject: Speed adjustment on a TM101-4 > Message-ID: <6081FA714D7FE01D9E@uwplatt.edu> > > Hi, > > I have an 80tkds drive, a Tandon TM101-4, which is running a bit too slow. > I cannot find a speed adjustment on this drive. Can the speed be > adjusted on this drive? and if so, how is it done. > > Thanks, > > Lance Tagliapietra ucslct@uwplatt.edu or ucslct@uwplatt.bitnet hi, well, if you're using Montezuma Micro CP/M, you should be able to change the drive speeds along with drive type, size, and quantity...through the configure program that comes with MM CP/M... it's the one before the one where you change and assign different drive types, and the menu there is kind of overlayed.... you select the drive A - D and it should give you another menu stating the above spects on the drive which you can change... it's all done by the software... by the way, I have a slightly rebuilt TRS-80 Model 4P with almost anything I could buy or build for it... later dude.. A 2.... ___________________________________________________________ ( -->> Eudoh@sctnve.bitnet <<-- Cyber Lab Consultant ) ( Computer Operations ) ( //!\\ \\\\\\\\ Southern College of Technology ) ( // \\ !! ) ( //!!!!!\\ //////// \\ Etop Udoh \\ ) ( // \\ !! \\ - A2 - \\ ) ( // \\ \\\\\\\\ ) ( Sometimes you just gotta say "what the f*ck" ) (___________________________________________________________) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 90 13:47:44 -0400 From: EUDOH%sctnve@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Subject: what disk for an 80tk ds dd Tandon TM101-4 drive Message-ID: <5A071F0D1F130373-SCTNVE*EUDOH@sctnve> > > INFO-CPM Digest V90 #123 > > What disk for an 80tk ds dd Tandon TM101-4 drive > >Well, the subject about says it all. I would like to know where I can get > >disks which will work in my 96tpi 80tk ds dd Tandon TM101-4 drives which > >Montezuma Micro CP/M will format to 820K. I just bought a box of Kodak MD"-H > >disks which are rated at 96tpi, but they do not format, every track fails > >the verify pass. These disks are made for high density drives (1.2Meg). > > > >In the past, I have found Radio Shack 80tk 5.25" disks to work well, and also > >some brands of 48tpi disks. What is different about the high density disks > >that they will not work properly on my drives? > > Lance Tagliapietra ucslct@uwplatt.edu or ucslct@uwplatt.bitnet HI, I started using the 80tk 5.25" drives about 4 or 5 years ago, when a friend of mine and I bought a pair, just tto see if they would work... We first used them with Newdos/80, Dosplus, and then finally Montezuma Micro.. We used regular 48tpi disks, and the drives never really complained... Generic ones are probably the best...not to put anyone down... Note: if you get bad tracks after formatting with MM CP/M, you can lock out the bad tracks with the "findbad" program....and you normally just get a handful of bad tracks. the only way you can really go wrong with the drive is trying to write a another format with it, such as a 40 trk format, you can read them fine, but it is not recommended to write to them also... You overlay every other track in a sense in other to be able to write the lesser format and it probably won't do it correctly after a time, or who knows what else could happen.... Already lost one drive because of that....it's like it just slowly went out of alignment.... later dude... A 2... ___________________________________________________________ ( -->> Eudoh@sctnve.bitnet <<-- Cyber Lab Consultant ) ( Computer Operations ) ( //!\\ \\\\\\\\ Southern College of Technology ) ( // \\ !! ) ( //!!!!!\\ //////// \\ Etop Udoh \\ ) ( // \\ !! \\ - A2 - \\ ) ( // \\ \\\\\\\\ ) ( Sometimes you just gotta say "what the f*ck" ) (___________________________________________________________) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 90 14:32:30 EST From: SAGE@LL.LL.MIT.EDU Subject: Z-System After the Amstrad discuss here, Peter da Silva asked me: >> What is the Z system? Is it available for non-Amstrad CP/M boxes? Z-System is an advanced CP/M-compatible operating system with such features as: multiple commands on a line powerful scripting/aliasing capability search path for requested commands and files error trapping and recovery Unix-like TCAP for terminal-independent full-screen operations command processor shells including history shells wordprocessor-like command line editing flow control commands (multilevel IF/THEN/ELSE processing) reloadable, user-selectable resident commands named directories security (great for remote-access systems) It has been available for many years for CP/M-2.2 machines. Only in the past two years did we figure out how to get it to run on CP/M-Plus computers as well. We now have commercial versions that install automatically, can be reconfigured easily, and even allow the configuration to be changed on the fly. If you send me a mailing address, I would be happy to send you some information. -- Jay Sage ------------------------------ End of INFO-CPM Digest V90 Issue #126 ************************************* 4-Aug-90 11:33:06-MDT,14183;000000000000 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 4 Aug 90 11:15:29 MDT From: INFO-CPM-REQUEST@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Reply-To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: INFO-CPM Digest V90 #127 To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Message-ID: <900804111531.V90N127@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> INFO-CPM Digest Sat, 4 Aug 90 Volume 90 : Issue 127 Today's Topics: CP/M ftp sites? How to speed up Ampro LB+ SCSI? Osborne portables Osborne portables II... ZCPR 3.3 extended environment? ZCPR 3.3 FAST ERA/REN/PROT algorithm ZCPR 3.3 Named Directories ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 1 Aug 90 14:55:53 GMT From: media-lab!snorkelwacker!spdcc!merk!alliant!linus!nixbur!nixpbe!peun11!josef@EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Moellers) Subject: CP/M ftp sites? Message-ID: In <9007301457.AA21181@thep.lu.se> magnus@THEP.LU.SE (Magnus Olsson) writes: >Does anyone know of any ftp sites with CP/M programs? The only one I've >heard of so far is Simtel20. ^^^^^^^^ ... and still not enough?? -- | Josef Moellers | c/o Nixdorf Computer AG | | USA: mollers.pad@nixbur.uucp | Abt. PXD-S14 | | !USA: mollers.pad@nixpbe.uucp | Heinz-Nixdorf-Ring | | Phone: (+49) 5251 104662 | D-4790 Paderborn | ------------------------------ Date: 31 Jul 90 16:02:55 GMT From: hpda!hpcuha!aspen!hpcc01!hpbbn!hpbbrd!hpfcmdd!hpfcso!hpldola!hp-lsd!was@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Bill Stubblebine) Subject: How to speed up Ampro LB+ SCSI? Message-ID: <8190004@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM> I have a question for any Ampro Little Board Z80+ BIOS hackers still left out there. My configuration: Ampro LB Z80+ (w/built-in SCSI interface) Adaptec ACB4000 (not 4000A) SCSI hard disk controller Seagate ST-125 20 MB 40 ms hard disk drive 3M MCD-403 40 MB QIC SCSI tape drive NZ-COM/Z-System I've used this system for several years. Until recently, I've never had reason to complain about the speed of the LB+ BIOS SCSI routines talking to my hard disk because most programs and editor text load within human tolerance limits, i.e., < ~1-3 seconds. Recently, I purchased the 3M MCD-403 SCSI tape drive to support backups. It was a good deal for $129 surplus at Halted Electronics in Sunnyvale. The tape drive works great, and the Ampro BIOS provides a convenient virtual machine for accessing the SCSI bus. Within a very short time I was able to exercise the tape drive's basic features via SCSI. As I started transferring real data between the hard disk and the tape drive, I discovered that I could not source or sink data from the hard disk fast enough to keep the tape drive streaming. (Streaming means keeping the tape drive motor continuously running during data transfers.) Without maintaining streaming operation, the tape transport stops, repositions the tape and starts up again to read or write each physical block on the tape. Because this extra positioning activity will probably reduce the life of the tape transport, it looks like I need to speed up the hard disk accesses slightly. A few more details on the tape drive. The tape drive reads and writes 8k byte physical blocks. A single SCSI command can transfer multiple 8k blocks to or from the tape, but never less than one block. To keep the tape drive streaming the host needs to request a read, write or seek operation from the tape drive within 250ms of a prior read, write or seek operation, otherwise the tape drive motor shuts down automatically. A few more details on the disk drive and controller. The Adaptec ACB4000 controller formats the ST-125 using 18 512-byte physical sectors (or logical blocks as the controller manual refers to them) per physical track. Thus, one physical track on the disk contains 72 logical (128-byte) CP/M sectors, with four 128-byte CP/M sectors per each 512-byte SCSI logical block. The Ampro BIOS computes CP/M sector and track numbers based on 64 128-byte sectors per track, and converts the CP/M track/sector numbers into SCSI Logical Block Addresses (LBAs) as part of processing BIOS read, write and seek requests. I mention this so that in the following discussion when I refer to logical sectors, you will know that I am not talking about CP/M sectors and tracks, but logical 512-byte SCSI logical blocks. The SCSI logical blocks are physically positioned in relation to each other on the track based on the interleave factor specified to the Adaptec controller at format time. The Adaptec controller supports interleave factors from 1:1 to 9:1, i.e., the fastest interleave (1:1) is when sequential logical sectors occupy adjacent physical locations on the track, while the slowest interleave (9:1) has eight physical SCSI sectors between each logical SCSI sector. The ST-125 spins at 3600 RPM = 60 RPS => 16.67 ms/ revolution. Thus, the drive has a basic latency of 16.67/2=8.33 ms, i.e., the average time you need to wait before the desired physical block arrives under the head, assuming, of course that the head is positioned over the desired track. I've spent some time characterizing the hard disk operation. To my surprise, even with the ST-125 formatted at the slowest interleave (9:1), the BIOS cannot transfer the contents of a 512-byte SCSI logical sector in time to read the next SCSI logical sector on the same track nine sectors away. In fact, careful measurement revealed that after reading a SCSI sector, at 9:1 interleave the the BIOS **just misses** the next available logical sector, and has to wait for the next revolution. For example, after reading physical sector 1, the nearest physical sector that the BIOS can read on the same track during the same rotation is physical sector 11 as illustrated below: One track: <--------------------- 16.67 ms --------------------> Physical: 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Logical: 01 03 05 07 09 11 13 15 17 02 04 06 08 10 12 14 16 18 One sector: <---------- 8.33 ms -------> I did these experiments using bona fide BIOS calls just as an application program would. I transferred each 512-byte SCSI block to memory using four sequential CP/M sector requests starting with the CP/M sector that mapped onto the first of the four CP/M sectors in the SCSI physical block. (Believe me, that was an interesting exercise in integer programming.) I timed the SCSI block transfer starting from just before the first CP/M sector request till just after the fourth sequential CP/M request. These were BIOS sector reads and writes - no BDOS overhead was involved. I realize that reading 4 CP/M sectors per SCSI sector involves overhead in the BIOS deblocking code. I estimated the overhead of the deblocking code by measuring the time to transfer a 128 byte CP/M sector I knew was already buffered in the BIOS deblocker. This took a little less than 1 ms per CP/M sector - not fast, but also nowhere near the 8ms+ required for the entire 512 SCSI block. The results indicate that the BIOS is taking > ~4ms to read a measly 512 bytes per physical SCSI sector. Overall, the net throughput of the Ampro SCSI HD interface seems lower than it should be. The best it can do is four 128 byte CP/M sectors per 16.6 ms disk revolution, or 512 bytes/16.6ms. Thus, even with a 1:1 interleave so that logical sector 2 is right next to logical sector 1, transferring 8k bytes requires: (8192/512 sectors)*16.67 ms/sector = 16*16.67 = 266.72 ms This equates to only 30,713 bytes per second net throughput from the hard disk - not too impressive in my opinion. Add to this any randomness in a file's disk allocation involving head seek time, and I'm out of the ball park for streaming. If I could speed up the processing of a SCSI logical sector by one or two milliseconds, I could double the throughput at an interleave of 9:1, because the BIOS could transfer two SCSI logical sectors per revolution instead of 1 SCSI sector per revolution as it does now. If you're still with me, I wonder if anyone has managed to get more than 30.7K bytes per second net throughput to/from the hard disk out of a configuration similar to mine. I've read the Ampro BIOS source and the Adaptec technical manual several times without finding a clue to speeding things up further. What's the trick? Bill Stubblebine Hewlett-Packard Logic Systems Div. was@hp-lsd.hp.com (Internet) (719) 590-5568 ------------------------------ Date: 2 Aug 90 02:09:09 GMT From: godzilla.cis.ohio-state.edu!ray@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (william c ray) Subject: Osborne portables Message-ID: <82631@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> HELP!!! I work for a VERY poor research lab... we hdon't have enough money to buy new machines, so we scrounge what we can from surplus... Well, I just came across 2 (supposedly functional) Osborne portable machines, which from all appearances have IEEE488 interfaces (wow!)... Trouble is, they don't have any of the docs, or software (not even boot/OS)... We would love to get these things functional, to use as data acquisition controllers w/ the IEEE488. So, does anyone have one of these? Could you *Please* send me copies of manuals, software, information on these? (I did pick the right group, right? they are CPM machines aren't they?) We would be more than happy to pay duplication/postage/etc costs. thanks Will Ray ray@cis.ohio-state.edu wcr@rsch.oclc.org ------------------------------ Date: 3 Aug 90 17:34:10 GMT From: wizard.cis.ohio-state.edu!ray@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (william c ray) Subject: Osborne portables II... Message-ID: <82691@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> Thanks to the people who have replied to my query, I now know that there are different types of osborne portables... well, it seems that I have 2 different versions of the OS-1 (actually, the plate on the newer of the two lists it as an OCC-1). So, if anyone has the software for one of these contraptions, PLEASE (please please please be listening) let me know. I would very much appreciate copies of anything that can be knownn about, or run on the machine. thanks Will Ray ray@cis.ohio-state.edu wcr@rsch.oclc.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 90 08:49:18 edt From: Subject: ZCPR 3.3 extended environment? Message-ID: <9008021349.AB00031@adam.DG.COM> CEO summary: I have an installation of ZCPR 3.3 that I am trying to get different utilities running for. However, with SHOW I get the message "extended environment required" and with ZEX I get "inadequate facilities". I have everything implemented--RCPs, IOPs, FCPs, external environment, termcap, named directories, external command line, external stack, etc. etc. First of all, what is the extended environment--mine is based on SYSENV.LBR (which seems to be cludgey at best), where am I supposed to get a proper environment information? Thanks. dan_zehme@bsn.ceo.dg.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 90 09:00:26 edt From: Subject: ZCPR 3.3 FAST ERA/REN/PROT algorithm Message-ID: <9008021400.AA00042@adam.DG.COM> CEO summary: I just recently moved from my own (very system dependent) command processor replacement to ZCPR 3.3. One thing that I noticed is that commands such as ERA, REN, PROT and any other program that work to modify the directory can be made to work a lot faster than they already are. From what I can tell, ERA will first scan the directory using the search and next functions, and the delete each file individually with the delete command. This requires that the directory be scaned once no matter what, and once for each file to be deleted. The faster way for the simple ERA would to be scan the directory using the search and next functions, but when I directory entry is found, print it, change the user to E5 and then to a BIOS write. BIOS is already set to the correct DMA, track, and sector because of the read to get that sector there in the first place. This way the directory is read once (very fast). For more complex operations such as querying for verification, read the directory once, perform the queries, and then scan a second time, changing only the files that the user has allowed to be changed. Has anybody thought to do this? How about getting it changed (I might be able to do it myself, but I need info on getting this tested and distributed)? Thanks. dan_zehme@bsn.ceo.dg.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 90 08:53:18 edt From: Subject: ZCPR 3.3 Named Directories Message-ID: <9008021353.AA00044@adam.DG.COM> CEO summary: I have been having problems with named directories under ZCPR 3 since I began installing it. The problem lies with the LDR, and I think I have discovered where. With the Z3BASE.LIB, I specify the number of entries that I want (used default of 14) and the size of the buffer is then 18*entries+1. However, looking into the Z3LIB routines, the information it provides is the number of 128 byte blocks that the named directory is. What seems to be happening is that when I load the named directory, it winds up clobbering the command line. It seems to me here that something is in conflict, and it is the Z3LIB (and all programs that use it, including LDR) are wrong. Can someone please give me some input as to what number should be in the environment (entries or 128 byte blocks) and how does Z3LIB get the number of 128 byte blocks of the number of entries. Thanks. dan_zehme@bsn.ceo.dg.com ------------------------------ End of INFO-CPM Digest V90 Issue #127 ************************************* 8-Aug-90 12:25:17-MDT,8970;000000000000 Mail-From: KPETERSEN created at 8-Aug-90 12:16:54 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 12:16:53 MDT From: INFO-CPM-REQUEST@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Reply-To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: INFO-CPM Digest V90 #128 To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Message-ID: <900808121654.V90N128@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> INFO-CPM Digest Wed, 8 Aug 90 Volume 90 : Issue 128 Today's Topics: CP/M-UG Hamburg How to speed up Ampro LB+ SCSI? (2 msgs) KAYPRO 10 forsale Z80 assembler recommendations zcpr 3.3 questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 3 Aug 90 21:01:40 GMT From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!smurf!gopnbg!mcshh!dk3uz@ucsd.edu (Edmund Ramm) Subject: CP/M-UG Hamburg Message-ID: <7882@mcshh.hanse.de> Das naechste Treffen der CP/M User Group Hamburg findet statt am Sonnabend, dem 11. August 1990 um 1500h in Torstens Rechen- zentrum, Parallelstrasse 6a, 2000 Norderstedt. Gaeste sind wie immer gern gesehen. Edmund Ramm, DK3UZ, Anderheitsallee 24, 2000 Hamburg 71, +49 40 6425430 voice uunet!mcsun!unido!mcshh!dk3uz or uunet!mcsun!unido!cosmo!dk3uz --> Edmund Ramm, DK3UZ, Anderheitsallee 24, 2000 Hamburg 71, +49 40 6425430 voice uunet!mcsun!unido!mcshh!dk3uz or uunet!mcsun!unido!cosmo!dk3uz ------------------------------ Date: 6 Aug 90 18:29:22 GMT From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!bu.edu!orc!inews!cadev6!dbraun@ucsd.edu (Doug Braun ~) Subject: How to speed up Ampro LB+ SCSI? Message-ID: <2681@inews.intel.com> In article <8190004@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM> was@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM (Bill Stubblebine) writes: >I have a question for any Ampro Little Board Z80+ BIOS hackers still left >out there. > >My configuration: > > Ampro LB Z80+ (w/built-in SCSI interface) > Adaptec ACB4000 (not 4000A) SCSI hard disk controller > Seagate ST-125 20 MB 40 ms hard disk drive > 3M MCD-403 40 MB QIC SCSI tape drive > NZ-COM/Z-System > . . . > >If you're still with me, I wonder if anyone has managed to get more than >30.7K bytes per second net throughput to/from the hard disk out of a >configuration similar to mine. I've read the Ampro BIOS source and the >Adaptec technical manual several times without finding a clue to speeding >things up further. What's the trick? > Since you are already directly accessing the SCSI bus to run the tape drive, you should do the same to access the disk. You could then read at least 32K at a time from the disk. In my UZI system, I swapped 32K bytes at a time. My hardware was a 4MHz Z80, a custom-built (simple) SCSI host adapter that used a Z80-DMA chip, a Shugart SCSI to ST-506 controller, and a hard disk with 8 heads. I was able to use a 2:1 interleave. With this setup, it takes about 4 revolutions to read 32K, which is ~68 ms. Allowing 2 ms for overhead, this gives you thruput of over 450K bytes/sec. The DMA chip allows me to read data fast enough for this. If you have to use programmed I/O, you will not do as well, had have to use a bigger interleave. With all these SCSI disk controllers, if you do many small reads instead of one large one, the overhead time will dominate the transfer time. I noticed on my CP/M BIOS, which uses 1K transfers (2 disk sectors at a time), that the performance is essentially independent of the disk interleave. With your tape setup, if you read 8k from disk, and write it to tape, you might keep the drive streaming msot of the time. If not, you could at least read 32K, and write 4 tape blocks per start/stop. Beware. If you always let almost 250 ms go by between writing tape blocks, you may have very large interrecord gaps, which will reduce your tape capacity. I have dealt with most of these issues while interfacing a Memtec drive to my system. Doug Braun Intel Corp CAD 408 765-4279 / decwrl \ | hplabs | -| oliveb |- !intelca!mipos3!cadev4!dbraun | amd | \ qantel / or: dbraun@scdt.intel.com ------------------------------ Date: 6 Aug 90 21:52:43 GMT From: mentor.cc.purdue.edu!descartes.math.purdue.edu!wilker@purdue.edu (Clarence Wilkerson) Subject: How to speed up Ampro LB+ SCSI? Message-ID: <12835@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> Could you implement "scsi device to scsi device" transfer without having to go through the CPU? This is possible under some circumstances ( e.g. two disks on same controller ), but I'm not sure of the generality. ------------------------------ Date: 6 Aug 90 21:27:39 GMT From: hpda!hpcupt1!hprnd!hprmokg!geh@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Gregory Holdren) Subject: KAYPRO 10 forsale Message-ID: <30680006@hprmokg.HP.COM> I have a KAYPRO 10 for sale. It is complete and is in excellent condition. o 4 MHz Z80, 64k of RAM o 390k floppy drive, 10Mb Harddrive o Built in 9" green screen w/some graphics capabilities o Removable keyboard (folds up to the face of the unit) o Portable unit with handle o All original manuals and system disks. o Turbo Pascal 3.30 o BDS C Compiler Ver 1.6 o NZCOM (Self installing ZCPR34) latest version as of May 90. o KayPro software package includes: WordStar 3.3, Dbase II, Mite others too,,, can't think of the others. o asking $300, you pay shipping or pick up. o Voice number (916) 773-5191 or respond to Greg Holdren geh@hprmokg.HP.COM ------------------------------ Date: 7 Aug 90 21:04:13 GMT From: stan!dancer!imp@uunet.uu.net (Warner Losh) Subject: Z80 assembler recommendations Message-ID: <1990Aug7.210413.21843@Solbourne.COM> I need recommendations for a Z80 assembler that handles Zilog Mnemonics. I have a BIOS-oid (for a DEC Rainbow, if that matters) that I need to assemble. The assembler should be able to do the following: 1) Macro expansion With arguments like ?Name, ?Size 2) Label folding Similar to the way that PDP-11 and VAX MACRO works. Namely, labels that are numberic followed by a "$" are discarded at the next non-temp label. The following code should work: foo: ld A,8 10$: JP C,20$ JP N,10$ 20$: ld A,(HL) XOR A bar: LD A,(IX+1) LD B,(IX) LD C,10 10$: OUT (40H),A DJNZ 10$ 3) Support for IF, TITLE and ORG 4) Ability to produce binary image file This can run on a Sun 4, MS-DOS (Rainbow), CP/M-80 or CP/M-86. Pointers to a writeup on all the ones available would be nice. I know about simtel20.army.mil, but I couldn't find a writeup on what was available. Most of the files in the PD2: directory had the description:"No description available". Warner -- Warner Losh imp@Solbourne.COM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 90 13:44:58 PDT From: Bridger Mitchell Subject: zcpr 3.3 questions Message-ID: <9008062045.AA00560@newton> Dan, In general, a number of the problems you are running into in installing ZCPR 3.3have been solved or superceded by the current Z-System version (3.4) and associated tools and relocatable libraries. If you check with one of these Z-Nodes you will find a wealth of current info. 213-670-9465 (Ladera Heights, CA) 617-965-7259 (Newton Centre MA, password ='DDT') The most extensive documentation and notes on the Z-System are to be found in issues of The Computer Journal and in specific directories on the Z-Node remote CP/M systems. I don't have specific references at hand. The extended environment includes addresses of the ZCPR, BDOS and BIOS; it is described in columns by both Jay Sage and myself some issues back. In a zcpr 3.4 compatible system those addresses would either already be assembled into the ENV segment, or they would be installed when the dynamic Z-System is loaded/booted. Also, the JetLDR tool which comes with NZCOM and Z3PLUS automatically converts an older external environment into an extended one whenever it is used to load a system segment. --------- It is possible to ERA, REN, PROT, and MOVE directory entries with direct BIOS writes. However, this approach should be avoided in any general-purpose tool, and certainly in a (resident) command processor. The reason is that the host system might well mount another type of file system, such as DosDisk (which allows one to use MS-DOS disks transparently on a CP/M system). In that case, an ERA command would likely damage some crucual part of the dos disk. There are also some specific technicalities one needs to beware of, including multiple directory extents. -- bridger ------------------------------ End of INFO-CPM Digest V90 Issue #128 ************************************* 14-Aug-90 07:23:03-MDT,7656;000000000000 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 14 Aug 90 07:15:10 MDT From: INFO-CPM-REQUEST@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Reply-To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: INFO-CPM Digest V90 #129 To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Message-ID: <900814071511.V90N129@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> INFO-CPM Digest Tue, 14 Aug 90 Volume 90 : Issue 129 Today's Topics: Anyone got a CCS boot disk? CompuPro 8/16 curiosities CPM utilities - Melbourne.OZ readers only Help needed with TeleVideo TS-804 Kaypro 4 and 2400 Baud (2 msgs) Osborne help? SuperBrain BIOS source wanted Thanks and FAST ERA/REN/PROT continued VT220 Emulator ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 8 Aug 90 20:44:25 GMT From: hpda!hpcupt1!hprnd!hprmokg!wgh@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Bill Hooper) Subject: Anyone got a CCS boot disk? Message-ID: <30680008@hprmokg.HP.COM> I tried to respond via email but it ket bouncing. Anyway I have a CCS system and the source code you are looking for. I would be more than willing to arrange a swap for software. Bill Hooper wgh@hprmo.hp.com (w) (916) 785-5135 ------------------------------ Date: 14 Aug 90 09:59:47 GMT From: pacbell.com!pacbell!sactoh0!ijpc!ianj@ucsd.edu (Ian Justman) Subject: CompuPro 8/16 curiosities Message-ID: Just wondering, is there a Unix-type operating system for the CompuPro 8/16? If so, I would love to know about it! Thanks in advance. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Aug 90 06:23:46 GMT From: munnari.oz.au!goanna!minyos!rxxqva@uunet.uu.net (Quentin van Abbe) Subject: CPM utilities - Melbourne.OZ readers only Message-ID: <5385@minyos.xx.rmit.oz> I'm posting this for a contact with no net access in Melbourne. Anyone who can reply please contact him direct - Mr Walter Tiedemann Telephone (03) 368-3616 He is looking for CPM utilities, in particular a general purpose file undeletion routine, is all I can tell you. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Aug 90 09:58:09 GMT From: pacbell.com!pacbell!sactoh0!ijpc!ianj@ucsd.edu (Ian Justman) Subject: Help needed with TeleVideo TS-804 Message-ID: Sprague.WBST311@XEROX.COM writes: > Out of curiosity, is it still possible to get MP/M? I doubt it now. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Aug 90 00:41:40 GMT From: ncsuvm!netoprdw@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu Subject: Kaypro 4 and 2400 Baud Message-ID: <90225.204141NETOPRDW@ncsuvm.ncsu.edu> I have a Kaypro 4, 1983 model and a 2400 Baud modem. My problem is, at 2400 baud, it tends to drop characters. Thus: Enter username> becomes Etsernme> Is this a problem of software or hardware? How do I solve this problem? I have this difficulty with MODEM7+, YAMKAP, and CP4KPR. It is silly to have to use 1200 baud when I can go much faster. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Aug 90 10:50:52 GMT From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!munnari.oz.au!bunyip!iceman!zlraa@ucsd.edu (Ross Alford) Subject: Kaypro 4 and 2400 Baud Message-ID: <885@iceman.jcu.oz> > I have a Kaypro 4, 1983 model and a 2400 Baud modem. My problem is, at > 2400 baud, it tends to drop characters. I also have an '83 series Kaypro 4. It seems to cope just fine with terminal emulation using MEX at up to 4800 baud, if my memory serves me right. Now that I think about it, though, that may be because I doubled the clock speed using the Micro Cornucopia hardware mod some years ago, so it runs at 5 Mhz. Many old Kaypros have had this or a similar mod done, but if yours hasn't that could be one solution to the problem. You could also try getting an interrupt-driven terminal emulator. There is at least one on SIMTEL20, in the PD1: (might be wrong about it being PD1, could be PD2?) directory. Micro Cornucopia used to sell one on one of their disks, but since they seem to have gone out of business, I guess that is no longer a viable source. Ross Alford zlraa@marlin.jcu.edu.au ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 90 23:31 PDT From: Steven Russell Subject: Osborne help? Not long ago, someone posted a request for an Osborne 1 boot disk. I might be able to help, but I have lost the name and address of the author of the plea. So, to that needy person: If you still need help, drop me a note and I will see what I can do. -Steven Russell srussell@uoneuro.uoregon.edu ------------------------------ Date: 11 Aug 90 10:00:21 GMT From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!clyde.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!shad04@ucsd.edu (Dan Fandrich) Subject: SuperBrain BIOS source wanted Message-ID: <1990Aug11.100021.16616@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Does anyone have the soruce to the SuperBrain I BIOS? I have half of it, but apparently Intertec didn't release the other half (the fun low-level stuff). Of course, look where Intertec is (or isn't) today. Serves them right! :-) I'd love to get ZCPR going on my machine, but without full BIOS sources that's next to impossible. I'd hate to disassemble my BIOS and find out it's already been done. >>> Dan -- CDNnet: shad04@ccu.umanitoba.ca Compu$erve: 72365,306 FidoNet: Dan Fandrich at 1:153/511.1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 17:30:56 edt From: Subject: Thanks and FAST ERA/REN/PROT continued Message-ID: <9008082230.AA00041@adam.DG.COM> CEO summary: Thanks to everyone who has given me more information about ZCPR 3.4. I now have it up an running (although I have not used NZCOM, just what comes from simtel20). The funny thing, is that now that I read some of The Computer Journal articles, I find that I had pretty much reinvented NZCOM on my system (mine doesn't do automatic relocation, but everything is almost the same, although mine is a little better for QX-10s). I finally looked back at the named directories, and making them pad out to sector sizes worked fine. As for the environment, I already had the new environment, its just that the code was wrong. Could someone give me a summary of the environment types and what they mean?? As for the FAST ERA/REN/PROT, the point that other things such as DosDisk would have problems is a good point (lbrdisk is another one). As far as other things go--I am fully aware about extents and the such (I have been hacking around CP/M since ZCPR 1.0!). A "general purpose" utility could be written that either does things conventionally or using this fast mode by making a check on the drive. Are there any suggestions on making this check (other than an environment byte)? Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Aug 90 02:16:28 GMT From: clyde.concordia.ca!NSTN!utgpu!watserv1!vlsi!atschnei@uunet.uu.net (Todd Schneider) Subject: VT220 Emulator Message-ID: <1990Aug13.021628.6685@vlsi.waterloo.edu> Does anyone know where I can get a VT220 terminal emulator for a CP/M machine? Anything - freeware, shareware or commercial is acceptable. Please reply by e-mail as I am not a regular reader of this group. If there is interest I will post a summary. Thanks, Todd. (atschnei@vlsi.waterloo.edu) ------------------------------ End of INFO-CPM Digest V90 Issue #129 ************************************* 16-Aug-90 04:23:48-MDT,9801;000000000000 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 16 Aug 90 04:15:08 MDT From: INFO-CPM-REQUEST@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Reply-To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: INFO-CPM Digest V90 #130 To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Message-ID: <900816041509.V90N130@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> INFO-CPM Digest Thu, 16 Aug 90 Volume 90 : Issue 130 Today's Topics: 86-88 MicroSys Journals Cheap CP/M on the C128 and secondary devices Is there space in bank 0 that can be used for a small RAM disk? Kaypro 10 and Even Parity Kaypro 4 and 2400 Baud (3 msgs) SuperBrain BIOS and ZCPR UNZIP.LBR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed 15 Aug 90 09:48:44-EST From: Gern Subject: 86-88 MicroSys Journals Cheap Message-ID: <12614006781.9.GUBBINS@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL> I am looking for a good home to my collection of Sol Libes's MicroSystems/ Journal magazines. I have complete issues from JAN/FEB 86 (Vol 2 #1) to DEC 88 (VOL 4 #12) - 24 issues in all. Say $5.00 to cover shipping to anywhere in the US to the first person who REALLY wants them. Cheers, Gern ------- ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 90 19:36:15 GMT From: ogicse!zephyr.ens.tek.com!orca.wv.tek.com!pogo!rickc@decwrl.dec.com (Rick Clements) Subject: CP/M on the C128 and secondary devices Message-ID: <9628@pogo.WV.TEK.COM> Is there a way to access a printer and specify the secondary address? On the printer I have, the only way to access several of the features by setting the secondary address. :-( BASIC in C64 or C128 mode is about the only way to access these features. )-: My plotter has the same problem. -- Rick Clements (RickC@pogo.WV.TEK.COM) ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 90 19:28:30 GMT From: ogicse!zephyr.ens.tek.com!orca.wv.tek.com!pogo!rickc@decwrl.dec.com (Rick Clements) Subject: Is there space in bank 0 that can be used for a small RAM disk? Message-ID: <9627@pogo.WV.TEK.COM> I have a C128 and would like to use any free space in bank zero as a RAM disk. I shells that come with my two C compilers (for 128 mode) both have about 48K available. Does anyone know how much space is available? Any tips on setting it up would be appreciated. -- Rick Clements (RickC@pogo.WV.TEK.COM) ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 90 18:36:54 GMT From: fed!macs2!m1tca00@uunet.uu.net (Thomas C. Allard) Subject: Kaypro 10 and Even Parity Message-ID: <678@arccs2.fed.FRB.GOV> Can anyone tell me how to set even parity on a Kaypro with a Incomm 2400 baud modem. I'm running Mex+ and when I use the set parity even command I can no longer talk to the modem port. I suspect that this is merely changing the way which Mex talks to the port but not the port itself. When I log onto the fed's netserver at no parity (it expects even) I can still send SOME characters but half are filtered. I can send most of the alphabet (half uppercase, the rest lower). I'd tell the server to set no parity, but the equal sign is blocked. When I use Mex+ to set even parity I can't even issue an AT command and switching after the connection doesn't help either. rgds-- TA (fed!m1tca00) ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 90 18:31:31 GMT From: fed!macs2!m1tca00@uunet.uu.net (Thomas C. Allard) Subject: Kaypro 4 and 2400 Baud Message-ID: <677@arccs2.fed.FRB.GOV> In article <90225.204141NETOPRDW@ncsuvm.ncsu.edu>, NETOPRDW@ncsuvm.ncsu.edu writes: |> |> I have a Kaypro 4, 1983 model and a 2400 Baud modem. My problem is, at |>2400 baud, it tends to drop characters. |>Thus: |> |>Enter username> |> |>becomes |> |>Etsernme> |> |>Is this a problem of software or hardware? How do I solve this problem? |>I have this difficulty with MODEM7+, YAMKAP, and CP4KPR. |> |>It is silly to have to use 1200 baud when I can go much faster. Make sure that your 25th status line is off. When it is on the machine has to redraw the screen when scrolling and doesn't have time to keep up. I think the sequence is ESC-C-7. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Aug 90 01:19:56 GMT From: ncsuvm!netoprdw@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu Subject: Kaypro 4 and 2400 Baud Message-ID: <90227.211956NETOPRDW@ncsuvm.ncsu.edu> Thanks for the info. I am still running at 2.5MHz, does anyone know If I can get a clock speed upgrade to 5 or 8 MHz? and If so, from where and how much It will cost me? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Monty: You're SURE you finished? | BITNET:NETOPRDW AT NCSUVM Gadget: Sure I'm sure. | internet:netoprdw@ncsuvm.ncsu.edu Monty: Not like the Last time? |_____________________________________ Gadget: Oh, Monty, How many times can the wings fall off a plane? ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 90 18:32:49 GMT From: munnari.oz.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!levels!etrmg@uunet.uu.net Subject: Kaypro 4 and 2400 Baud Message-ID: <15264.26c99552@levels.sait.edu.au> In article <90225.204141NETOPRDW@ncsuvm.ncsu.edu>, NETOPRDW@ncsuvm.ncsu.edu writes: > > I have a Kaypro 4, 1983 model and a 2400 Baud modem. My problem is, at > 2400 baud, it tends to drop characters. > Thus: > > Enter username> > > becomes > > Etsernme> I am well aware of how this makes you feel. . . > Is this a problem of software or hardware? It's a hardware problem. > How do I solve this problem? Get in touch with the people at Microcornucopia Magazine in Bend, OR. They offered a complete range of new monitor ROMs that use advanced video command sequences. This would allow the Z80 to do less video housekeeping (ie. more character buffering) and you'll get to keep your current setup. > I have this difficulty with MODEM7+, YAMKAP, and CP4KPR. I have it with ZMP, Kermit, and MDM730 (basically everything serial!) > It is silly to have to use 1200 baud when I can go much faster. Tell me about it! I hear the '84 series (mine) with graphics is even slower hence my knowledge about this. I can't even go 1200 with my Hayes without nulls on the BBS I'm calling! Unfortunately, nowadays, nobody needs nulls (but me!!!) My MOD involved a new ROM (PRO-MAX884 = $79.00 US) and a 2MHz 68B45 chip from Motorola. No worries at all. Works beautifully! Even gives me current time & date on the 25th line (status line) CONSTANTLY! VT52 Terminal emulation (H89, etc.) and Screen dump, & much more. (ZCPR in ROM) If you want an address or a few more references to articles in uC, let me know by email. Good luck . . . . Ronn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 90 12:14:33 EST From: SAGE@LL.LL.MIT.EDU Subject: SuperBrain BIOS and ZCPR Dan Fandrich said, "I'd love to get ZCPR going on my machine, but without full BIOS sources that's next to impossible." Not so on several accounts! First, with NZCOM you can have a full Z- System running in a matter of minutes on just about any CP/M-2.2 computer, including the SuperBrain. There is no need to tinker with the BIOS at all. Second, if you are not willing to spend the money for NZCOM and you have MOVCPM for your machine, you can use it to create a version of CP/M with some free memory above the top of the BIOS (relocated downward). After that, it is not terribly difficult to patch the BIOS coldboot code to initialize the ZCPR buffers and to replace the CP/M CCP with ZCPR3x. You still won't have as flexible and configurable a system this way, but I did this many times before Joe Wright came up with the autoinstall concept used in NZCOM. Even if you don't have MOVCPM, there is still hope. As the owner of the QX-10 mentioned here recently (sorry, I did not note his name), you can fairly easily create your own simplified version of NZCOM for your particular installation. You would boot CP/M and then run your own loader program that would install the virtual BIOS some distance below the real BIOS entry point. I described this in some detail in a TCJ column about two years ago. -- Jay Sage ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 90 23:06:38 GMT From: bu.edu!snorkelwacker!spdcc!mirror!pallio!dg@uunet.uu.net (David Goodenough) Subject: UNZIP.LBR Message-ID: An apology and a request. Firstly, my apologies to all who have come across my original UNZIP.LBR (the one without the source). The source is now included, and has been uploaded to a couple of BBS's here in Boston (from whence it will doubtless spread like wildfire :-) ). In addition UNZIP.ZY is up on GEnie in the CP/M RT libraries, and the correct UNZIP.LBR is available from the rna server here at pallio. If you need to get at the server, send mail containing the following two lines: /send help to your_address /send index to your_address to pallio!rna, where 'your_address' gets replaced by either a valid Internet address (user@host.domain type thing), or a bang path from a backbone site. Secondly, UNZIP as it currently is only handles Shrinking, Reducing and Imploding (i.e. PKZIP102). I gather that there is a new compression method out there for PKZIP110, does anyone know anything about it, or (preferably) where I can get C source for a decompressor. -- dg@pallio.UUCP - David Goodenough +---+ IHS | +-+-+ ..... !harvard!xait!pallio!dg +-+-+ | AKA: dg%pallio.uucp@xait.xerox.com +---+ ------------------------------ End of INFO-CPM Digest V90 Issue #130 ************************************* 20-Aug-90 07:25:52-MDT,4607;000000000000 Mail-From: KPETERSEN created at 20-Aug-90 07:18:08 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 20 Aug 90 07:18:08 MDT From: INFO-CPM-REQUEST@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Reply-To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: INFO-CPM Digest V90 #131 To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Message-ID: <900820071808.V90N131@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> INFO-CPM Digest Mon, 20 Aug 90 Volume 90 : Issue 131 Today's Topics: Docs wanted Kaypro 10 and Even Parity Kaypro 4 and 2400 Baud ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Aug 90 09:49:25 GMT From: pacbell.com!pacbell!sactoh0!ijpc!ianj@ucsd.edu (Ian Justman) Subject: Docs wanted Message-ID: <35k2N2w162w@ijpc.UUCP> I would like documentation on the following items (or information): CompuPro System Support 1 CompuPro Interfacer 3 CompuPro Disk 1A CompuPro Disk 3 (I'll explain in a bit) CompuPro M-Drive/H For the CompuPro Disk 3, I'm having troubles using one on my Z80 S100 box, a Dynabyte DB8/1. It's supposed to use DMA, and it doesn't seem to be communicating to the bus properly. If anyone has worked on any code for the Disk 3, source (pref. in Z80 source) code would be GREATYLY appreciated. Thanks in advance. Ian Justman 6612 Whitsett Drive North Highlands, CA 95660 {ames, att, sun, apple, pyramid}!pacbell!sactoh0!ijpc!ianj (My PC) same as above, but replace "ijpc" with "ijsys" to reach my CP/M box. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Aug 90 02:03:24 GMT From: spdcc!mirror!pallio!dg@husc6.harvard.edu (David Goodenough) Subject: Kaypro 10 and Even Parity Message-ID: In article <678@arccs2.fed.FRB.GOV> Thomas C. Allard says: > Can anyone tell me how to set even parity on a Kaypro with a Incomm 2400 > baud modem. I'm running Mex+ ..... Try QTERM. The Kaypro patch has been checked extensively, and does the right thing when it comes to messing with the baud rate and comm mode. If you want a copy, it's available on the server here: put the following lines in mail sent to pallio!rna (rna%pallio.uucp@xait.xerox.com) /send help to your_address /send index to your_address that will get sone info on the server, and this line /send qterm to your_address will send a copy of qterm. Note that in all cases, 'your_address' should be replaced by either a bang path from a backbone site, or an Internet style address (user@host.domain). If you need the kaypro patch, I can send that out, but the general collection of patches isn't available yet since I'm still upgrading some from the V4.1e days. -- dg@pallio.UUCP - David Goodenough +---+ IHS | +-+-+ ..... !harvard!xait!pallio!dg +-+-+ | AKA: dg%pallio.uucp@xait.xerox.com +---+ ------------------------------ Date: 17 Aug 90 16:30:22 GMT From: usc!samsung!munnari.oz.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!levels!etrmg@ucsd.edu Subject: Kaypro 4 and 2400 Baud Message-ID: <15269.26cc1b9f@levels.sait.edu.au> In article <90227.211956NETOPRDW@ncsuvm.ncsu.edu>, NETOPRDW@ncsuvm.ncsu.edu writes: > Thanks for the info. I am still running at 2.5MHz, does anyone know > If I can get a clock speed upgrade to 5 or 8 MHz? and If so, from where > and how much It will cost me? > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Monty: You're SURE you finished? | BITNET:NETOPRDW AT NCSUVM > Gadget: Sure I'm sure. | internet:netoprdw@ncsuvm.ncsu.edu > Monty: Not like the Last time? |_____________________________________ > Gadget: Oh, Monty, How many times can the wings fall off a plane? You may find all the info you need in a few old issues of MicroCornucopia. Give them a ring at 503-382-5060 Someone may answer still (if you're lucky) and then you can order the right issues. Alternatively, you could send something to POB 223; Bend, Oregon 97709. I know uC is out of business, but you may still get in touch (Dave Thompson is a great guy) Also, you could contact Microsphere in Bend too. Dave's bro runs it & is still in business. 503-388-1194 (Beware, these numbers are from a 1985 issue so don't get mad if they aren't correct) Of course if all this fails, send me your address and I'll send you some copies of the pertinent articles. They had Ram disks and video mods too so check it out! See you. Ronn ------------------------------ End of INFO-CPM Digest V90 Issue #131 ************************************* 22-Aug-90 07:26:14-MDT,19980;000000000000 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 22 Aug 90 07:15:06 MDT From: INFO-CPM-REQUEST@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Reply-To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: INFO-CPM Digest V90 #132 To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Message-ID: <900822071507.V90N132@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> INFO-CPM Digest Wed, 22 Aug 90 Volume 90 : Issue 132 Today's Topics: 22DISK: MS/DOS <=> CP/M File transfers. (2 msgs) 86-88 MicroSys Journals Cheap How to speed up Ampro LB+ SCSI? QIC 36 interface UZI-280? Z80 multitask (2 msgs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Aug 90 08:55:49 PDT (Monday) From: Sprague.WBST311@Xerox.COM Subject: 22DISK: MS/DOS <=> CP/M File transfers. Message-ID: <900820-100100-1669@Xerox> Does anyone use the 22DISK shareware program on a PC, to transfer files to and from Xerox 820 series disks? At this point, I only have the shareware verison, not the registered version. I thought I would make sure it would work for me, before I actually paid the registration fee. I can *NOT* get it to work however. The shareware version supports 5 different Xerox formats, though one has nothing to do with the 820's (perhaps it's for the Xerox 6085 workstation). I started out trying the standard Xerox 820-II format. It could find no files on the 820 disk I was using, even though my 820-II said there were. I tried formatting an 820-II disk on the PC, but the 820 could not read it. I assume this is because my PC could not write track 0 as single density. The other day, I recieved some disks through the mail, contaning some public domain software that I had been looking for. It had been formatted for the 820-II 16/8 DEM. 22DISK could not read these disks either, even though two different DEM formats (called EM-II in Uniform and 22 DISK), including the proper one are supported. The only Xerox 820 series format I have not tried is the single density 820 format. In addition, when I looked at the Disk Definition file for 22DISK, I think the section for the single density 820 is wrong. What I would like to know before I waste any more time on 22DISK, is if anyone else has used it with any success on one of the Xerox 820 series computers. ~ Mike ------------------------------ Date: 22 Aug 90 02:46:57 GMT From: hub.ucsb.edu!crmeyer@ucsd.edu Subject: 22DISK: MS/DOS <=> CP/M File transfers. Message-ID: <6147@hub.ucsb.edu> -Message-Text-Follows- In article <900820-100100-1669@Xerox>, Sprague.WBST311@XEROX.COM writes... > >Does anyone use the 22DISK shareware program on a PC, to transfer files to >and from Xerox 820 series disks? At this point, I only have the shareware >verison, not the registered version. I thought I would make sure it would >work for me, before I actually paid the registration fee. I can *NOT* get >it to work however. If all else fails, contact the folks who publish 22DISK at Sybex. I have found them to be EXTREEMLY helpfull. I had problems with formatting Morrow disks (read and wrote fine). Upon contacting them, they sent me a disk mailer to send to them a disk formatted on my Morrow. They then sent me back a 'tweeked' configuration file that worked fine. +-----------------------------------+ | Charles R. Meyer | | | | Internet: crmeyer@voodoo.ucsb.edu | | Bitnet: crmeyer@voodoo | | HEPnet: voodoo::crmeyer | +-----------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 20 Aug 90 10:32:26 GMT From: sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!lavaca.uh.edu!uhnix1!lobster!urchin!Charles.Cotham@ucsd.edu (Charles Cotham) Subject: 86-88 MicroSys Journals Cheap Message-ID: <1765.26CFC861@urchin.fidonet.org> I would love to have the magazines. If they are still available could you send them to the address below. Include a note as to how much the shipping is and I will get it right back to you or leave me a note here and I will be glad to get the money off to you as soon as I get your address. Thanks much for your time. Charles Cotham 2205 Lilac St. Nederland, Tex 77627 Ph. # 409-727-6156 ------------------------------ Date: 20 Aug 90 17:35:11 GMT From: hpfcso!hpldola!hp-lsd!was@hplabs.hpl.hp.com (Bill Stubblebine) Subject: How to speed up Ampro LB+ SCSI? Message-ID: <8190005@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM> Several weeks ago, I asked for advice on how to improve throughput for bulk data transfers from my SCSI hard disk to my SCSI QIC tape drive. For those who missed the original article, my configuration is: Ampro LB Z80+ (w/built-in SCSI interface) Adaptec ACB4000 (not 4000A) SCSI hard disk controller Seagate ST-125 20 MB 40 ms hard disk drive 3M MCD-403 40 MB QIC SCSI tape drive NZ-COM/Z-System The 3M MCD-403 SCSI tape drive was added recently to support backups. As I started transferring data between the hard disk and the tape drive, I discovered that although the SCSI disk performance was adequate for interactive and disk-to-disk operations, the hard disk could not source or sink data fast enough to keep the tape drive streaming during transfers. Before I posted my original request, I had experimented with several disk transfer strategies to try to increase throughput. All of my tests employed standard BIOS calls that transfers 128 bytes per BIOS call, based on Ampro's BIOS deblocking algorithm that reads or writes 512-byte SCSI logical blocks to the hard disk. My experiments indicated that BIOS calls could never achieve sufficient throughput to keep the cartridge tape drive streaming, no matter what the interleave factor is on the tape drive or on the disk drive. With all the stopping, repositioning and restarting of the cartridge drive, the overall throughput from disk to tape was under 3K bytes per second, plus the agony of hearing the drive stop and start for each 8K SCSI tape block transferred. Having run out of ideas, I asked the net for advice, and was gratified by the quantity and quality of the responses I received. To make a long story short, I have increased the overall throughput of disk to tape transfers from under 3K bytes per second to 12.7K bytes per second, allowing 10 megabytes to be backed up in about 13 minutes unattended. This is bliss compared to the endless attended floppy disk backups I am accustomed to. To assist anyone who may be facing similar system integration problems, I decided to keep a log of my experiments, which is summarized below. The quadrupling of throughput from 3K bytes/sec to 12.7K bytes/sec resulted from three categories of improvements to my configuration: 1. Read or write as many bytes as possible in each SCSI command, both from the SCSI hard disk and the SCSI tape drive. 2. Use the Z80 high-speed INIR/OTIR I/O instructions instead of software controlled byte-by-byte handshaking to talk to the 5380 SCSI interface chip on the Ampro LB+. 3. Once #1 and #2 are implemented, select optimal interleave factors on both the hard disk and the tape drive to maximize overall throughput. The biggest improvement came from #1. Reading 8k from the disk in one SCSI command more than doubled the overall throughput compared to normal BIOS calls, providing streaming operation in the tape drive for tape interleave factors of 6:1 or greater. HD interleave: 9:1 HD transfer mode: byte-by-byte HD transfer size: 8K x 1 Tape interleave: 6:1 Tape transfer mode: byte-by-byte Tape transfer size: 8K x 1 Net throughput: 6631 Kbytes/sec Next, I modified the disk read routine to read 8K bytes in two 4K SCSI commands, thereby simulating processing two distinct 4K CP/M disk allocation groups. The results were the same as for a single 8K SCSI operation, i.e., the tape keeps streaming. This experimental result suggests that the disk-to-tape backup program should bypass the BIOS altogether, and process CP/M allocation groups directly from the CP/M disk directory entries, converting the (4K-byte) CP/M allocation group number into a SCSI logical block number, then read all 4K of the allocation block from the disk in one SCSI command. This should be a robust strategy, because (in the Ampro system) HD space cannot be allocated in chunks of less than 4K bytes = 1 CP/M allocation group. HD interleave: 9:1 HD transfer mode: byte-by-byte HD transfer size: 4K x 2 Tape interleave: 6:1 Tape transfer mode: byte-by-byte Tape transfer size: 8K x 1 Net throughput: 6631 Kbytes/sec Next, I changed the SCSI handshakng from byte-by-byte to INIR/OTIR burst mode for both the hard disk and the MCD tape drive. This increased the burst transfer rate from 15us per byte to 5.25us per byte for both devices. Using a scope to monitor the SCSI bus, I then experimented with bulk SCSI transfers from hard disk at various disk interleave factors, obtaining the following surprising results: Hard Disk Time to transfer Interleave 8192 bytes HD->memory ---------- ---------------- 2:1 165ms 3:1 80ms 4:1 95ms 5:1 110ms 6:1 120ms 7:1 140ms 8:1 120ms 9:1 140ms At an interleave of 3:1, the fastest for bulk SCSI transfers, the hard disk supports a burst transfer rate of 5.25us per byte = 190.4K bytes/sec to the Ampro host, and a sustained data transfer rate of 102.4K bytes/sec, not bad for a lowly Z-80. Note: The previous and new interleave factors of 2:1 and 3:1, respectively, have virtually identical throughput for 512-byte BIOS transfers to and from disk. However, for multi-block transfers like the ones I intend to use for tape backups, an interleave of 3:1 produces a huge (i.e., >double) increase in disk throughput compared to an interleave factor of 2:1. With the hard disk formatted with interleave factor 3:1 and with burst mode data transfers in effect to both the hard disk and the tape drive, I then experimented with various tape drive interleave factors. The result is that I now can keep the tape drive streaming at a tape interleave factor of 4:1, which is much better than I had originally hoped. The overall disk to tape throughput increased to 9716 bytes/sec in this configuration. HD interleave: 3:1 HD transfer mode: burst HD transfer size: 4K x 2 Tape interleave: 4:1 Tape transfer mode: burst Tape transfer size: 8K x 1 Net throughput: 9716 Reading data from the hard disk in two 4K byte chunks takes about 80ms. A scope trace of SCSI bus activity indicated that a disk rotation was being lost between reading sequential 4K chunks, even when the two chunks were (logically) adjacent to one another on the same disk track, as is usually the case in large sequential files. When I repeated the experiments reading 8K from the disk in one SCSI request, the time required to fill the memory buffer from the disk dropped to around 60ms. In this configuration, the tape remained streaming at a tape interleave of 3:1, with overall throughput from the disk to the tape increasing to 12787 bytes/sec. HD interleave: 3:1 HD transfer mode: burst HD transfer size: 8K x 1 Tape interleave: 3:1 Tape transfer mode: burst Tape transfer size: 8K x 1 Net throughput: 12787 Kbytes/sec Getting writes to work to the tape was quite an adventure. The same trick that worked effectively for reads from the tape, namely setting the burst mode for 256-byte transfers, caused writes to the tape to hang in mid SCSI phase. The curious thing was that the multi-block writes worked fine when I stepped through them under manual control in the ZSID debugger, but hung when running normally. Figuring there was some race condition between the disk reads and the tape writes, I fiddled around with delays everywhere to no avail. Because the multi-block transfers worked OK with byte-by-byte handshaking, I finally concluded that 256 must be the wrong number of data bytes to transfer to the tape controller in a burst during the SCSI data-out phase. But what was the right number? I set the burst mode to 16 bytes per burst, which cut the byte-by-byte overhead by a factor of 16. This worked fine, allowing writes to the tape to stream at a tape interleave factor of 3:1, the same as for reads. Note: I still cannot explain why write transfers to the tape drive hang with 256 byte bursts and not with 16 byte bursts. Reads and writes both transfer 8192 bytes from or to the tape controller. This should loop the OTIR instruction exactly 32 times for 256 byte bursts and exactly 512 times for 16-byte bursts. Moreover, the transfer rate in either case is only one third of the tape drive controller's 500Kb/sec rated SCSI burst throughput. Maybe the discrepancy in the number of bytes transfered is on a 16-byte boundary, but I find this hard to believe. My 16-byte burst solution works, but maybe I'll just RTFM one more time...) None of my experiments thus far involved frequent head seeks on the hard disk, which are bound to add some overhead to the tape transfers, and could cause loss of streaming. To allow some overhead for head seeks, and still keep the tape streaming, I relaxed the tape interleave factor from 3:1 to 4:1. All in all, I'm quite happy with the results. I know that I can do 12.7K bytes/sec at 3:1 tape interleave, and nearly 10K bytes/sec at 4:1 tape interleave. Depending on the tape interleave I finally settle on, I have either tripled or quadrupled the overall disk-to-tape throughput compared to where I started, and learned a little about my disk drive, my tape drive and the SCSI protocol in the process. Now it's on to building a primitive file system to manage my backups on the cartridge tape. Since I envision the tape as just an archive of large backups (.LBR or tar files), without alot of random access going on, I'm inclined toward using a simple directory structure similar to the one for Novosielski .LBR files, but based on SCSI addressing instead of CP/M tracks and sectors. I'm flexible though, and I'd welcome any suggestions anyone might have regarding a file system for the cartridge tape. Lastly, a small personal note: Over the years I've had to put up with no end of criticism from associates regarding my ongoing interest in Z80 computers. Still, I'm continually amazed at my ability to continually push the envelope of this friendly little OS and CPU. One of my other hobbies is sailing. I get endless pleasure from trimming the sails, reading the wind, pushing the last 1% out of the system. I get the same feeling when talking to one of those so-called DOS "power users" as I do when some muscle boat goes tearing past me on the water. I remark to myself "very impressive - but what do you do after the first 10 minutes when the novelty's worn off?" Thanks again for all the help. It's nice to know there is still a group that shares some of my opinions. Perhaps I can return the favor one day. Bill Stubblebine Hewlett-Packard Logic Systems Div. Colorado Springs, CO was@hp-lsd.hp.com (Internet) (719) 590-5568 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 90 19:55:37 PDT From: cwr@pnet01.cts.com (Will Rose) Subject: QIC 36 interface Message-ID: <0093B7E1BD773FE0.00001F66@dcs.simpact.com> Does anyone know any *manufacturer's* id numbers for tape drives that implement the QIC 36 interface? Did this standard ever catch on? I've got a card that will convert SCSI=>QIC 36, and my CP/M machine can handle SCSI, so if I can only find a tape drive to put on the end of it all I have a backup system... (It's no use my asking the makers of tape drives -they'd try to sell me a new one, spoil the whole fun of the thing!) All suggestions gratefully received - Will ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "You think that your career | Will Rose will suffer if Dr. Kenworthy | learns you have the poisoned | UUCP:{nosc ucsd hplabs!hp-sdd}!crash!pnet01!c corpse of our fiancee in the | ARPA:crash!pnet01!cwr@nosc.mil ice box?" | INET:cwr@pnet01.cts.com Evelyn Waugh, "The Loved One" | UUCP: {nosc ucsd hplabs!hp-sdd}!crash!pnet01!cwr ARPA: crash!pnet01!cwr@nosc.mil INET: cwr@pnet01.cts.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 90 13:09+0200 From: CPM%DMZRZU71.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Subject: UZI-280? Message-ID: <900822110949.719125@DMZRZU71-UNI-MAINZ--GERMANY> There are rumours that the programmer of UZI, Doug Brown, will release a version of UZI for Z280. Is this true? I'd love to hear so. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ruediger Soerensen, University of Mainz, W. Germany Dpt. of Meteorology BITNET: ROGER@DMZRZU71 CPM@DMZRZU71 paper mail: R. Soerensen Universitaet Mainz Inst. f. Meteorologie D-6500 Mainz 1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 22 Aug 90 09:42:35 GMT From: mcsun!hp4nl!ruuinf!praxis!clldomps@uunet.uu.net (Louis van Dompselaar) Subject: Z80 multitask Message-ID: <3696@ruuinf.cs.ruu.nl> Is there anyone who has had some experience in using multitasking on a Z80 system? Please let me know what is, and what is not, possible... Louis clldomps@praxis.cs.ruu.nl ------------------------------ Date: 22 Aug 90 09:20:03 GMT From: eru!luth!sunic!mcsun!hp4nl!charon!jurjen@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (Jurjen NE Bos) Subject: Z80 multitask Message-ID: <1987@charon.cwi.nl> clldomps@praxis.cs.ruu.nl (Louis van Dompselaar) writes: >Is there anyone who has had some experience in using multitasking >on a Z80 system? Please let me know what is, and what is not, possible... >Louis >clldomps@praxis.cs.ruu.nl Easy! We (4 friends and me) built a multi-user Z80 systems already years ago, featuring 512K RAM, two real floppy drives while the users thought they had 4 floppies each (but if you wanted to read something, you had to walk over and insert your floppy), 5 terminals, etc. The system is still running, and today they are working on a LAN, hard disk, and more goodies. The trick is to get some coprocessors for things like key scanning, disk I/O, and other work that tends to eat away cycles. The CPU can then start doing only the more useful things. But of course, we had a lot more performance- increasing tricks... -- | | "Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what | | Jurjen N.E. Bos | it might appear to others that what you were or might | | | have been was not otherwise than what you had been | | jurjen@cwi.nl | would have appeared to them to be otherwise." | ------------------------------ End of INFO-CPM Digest V90 Issue #132 ************************************* 24-Aug-90 00:41:50-MDT,9838;000000000000 Mail-From: KPETERSEN created at 24-Aug-90 00:26:44 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 24 Aug 90 00:26:43 MDT From: INFO-CPM-REQUEST@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Reply-To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: INFO-CPM Digest V90 #133 To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Message-ID: <900824002644.V90N133@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> INFO-CPM Digest Fri, 24 Aug 90 Volume 90 : Issue 133 Today's Topics: SUBMIT replacement UZI-280? Z80 multitask (2 msgs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Aug 90 14:43:00 GMT From: astroatc!nicmad!madnix!deety!rat@speedy.wisc.edu (David Douthitt) Subject: SUBMIT replacement Message-ID: I've been having some trouble with SUBMIT.COM ... I'm running on a hard disk, and have my application on drive C0:, my data files used by my application(s) on drive D1:, and of course the $$$.SUB on drive A0:. I run my applications while logged into D1: - since I'm running ZCPR 3.0, I set the path to C0: --> A15: --> A0:. The problem is the $$$.SUB file is being created but not run until I do a warmstart while logged into A0: Is there a direct SUBMIT.COM replacement that will do the job? I'm running an Apple II+ with the PCPI Applicard. What about EX? [david] -- ====== David Douthitt ======== aka "The Stainless Steel Rat" ==== UUCP: uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!deety!rat InterNet: deety%rat@spool.cs.wisc.edu <<< Home of Mad Apple Forth and the Tiger Toolbox -- Apple II Forever! <<< If my next computer isn't an Apple II, it won't be a Macintosh. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Aug 90 22:00:38 GMT From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!bu.edu!orc!inews!cadev4!dbraun@ucsd.edu (Doug Braun ~) Subject: UZI-280? Message-ID: <2825@inews.intel.com> Here is what's going on with UZI-280: First, work is very sporadic. I did a lot before April, and then didn't get back to it until a few weeks ago. Here is what works right now: User/system address spaces: 64k user process plus 64k available for kernel. Kernel accesses user address space to get system call arguments, etc. Processes CANNOT corrupt kernel. Traps are fully supported by kernel. User processes can generate segmentation violation, illegal I/O instruction, divide by zero, etc. signals. The brk and sbrk system calls set up the MMU to trap wild pointers in user executables. All of this is very much like PDP-11 unix. The kernel will trap itself (and panic) on kernel stack overflow, null pointer, etc. The kernel does not use the user's stack (obviously). There is a correct and robust mechanism for processes to catch and ignore signals. The TTY driver supports stty things such as echo, cbreak, and raw mode. Virtual memory and paging are basis for memory managment and multiprogramming. Forked processes share copy-on-write pages. The old UZI swapping to disk is no longer done. The command response is now much faster. What I'm working on right now: The page replacement algorithm is very crude. Page access timestamps need to be implemented for the page replacement algorithm. What I would eventually like to do: Have proper interrupt-driven disk I/O. Support split I and D space for processes, allow 64K code plus 64K data. This would require supporting mixed 4K and 8K page sizes. Have the system self-supporting, which means having compiler and linker running under UZI (This is currently feasible). What's going on with utulities, compiler, etc.: I have modified the Q/C Z80 C compiler to generate Z280 opcodes, changing the code generator quite a bit to do better optimization. This is really an entirely seperate product, that can also be used on CP/M or as a cross-compiler. Indexed addressing is used to access all automatics, and register BC is for a register variable now. Alas, the Q/C compiler copyright prevents me from distributing this. Clever ideas to overcome this are welcome. I have ported the "Stevie" vi clone (now named "v8") to UZI-280. Alas, it barely fits in 64K, so it cannot edit anything more than 25 lines long. The split I/D enhancement would cure this. (This is how vi runs on PDP-11s). If anyone can recommend a screen-based editor I can get source to and port, such as VDE or VDO, that would be fantastic. Also, I run CP/M 3 on my system now, so if anyone wants a Z280 BIOS for CP/M 3 with memory management (all the fancy stuff), let me know. Doug Braun Intel Corp CAD 408 765-4279 / decwrl \ | hplabs | -| oliveb |- !intelca!mipos3!cadev4!dbraun | amd | \ qantel / or: dbraun@scdt.intel.com ------------------------------ Date: 22 Aug 90 12:44:07 GMT From: mcsun!hp4nl!sci.kun.nl!cs.kun.nl!lwj@uunet.uu.net (Luc Rooijakkers) Subject: Z80 multitask Message-ID: <2108@wn1.sci.kun.nl> jurjen@cwi.nl (Jurjen NE Bos) writes: >clldomps@praxis.cs.ruu.nl (Louis van Dompselaar) writes: >>Is there anyone who has had some experience in using multitasking >>on a Z80 system? Please let me know what is, and what is not, possible... >Easy! We (4 friends and me) built a multi-user Z80 systems already years >ago, featuring 512K RAM, two real floppy drives while the users thought >they had 4 floppies each (but if you wanted to read something, you had to >walk over and insert your floppy), 5 terminals, etc. >The system is still running, and today they are working on a LAN, hard disk, >and more goodies. >The trick is to get some coprocessors for things like key scanning, disk I/O, >and other work that tends to eat away cycles. The CPU can then start doing >only the more useful things. But of course, we had a lot more performance- >increasing tricks... But not too many. Since I'm the creator of the Timesharing software for that machine (Hi Jurjen!), I will give some hints. By the way, the software is still in use and amounts to about 12,000 lines assembly language (when I last counted it about a year ago). Basically, it all boils down to avoiding busy-waiting like the plague. So ALL I/O devices have to be interrupt-driven, and in our environment CP/M programs that constantly sit in a console-status loop are frowned on. Unfortunately, there are quite a lot of these (WordStar, among others, though we don't use it very much). We run multiple CP/M 2.2 systems on the system, with a *big* BIOS that does the sharing and lots of other work. The users each have 4 drives which they can assign to any named disk. When needed, the system asks for the disks, which can then be plugged in in any disk drive. We also support the use of two 5M ST506 hard disks (very old PC hard disks) which are attached to another Z80 system with a SASI adapter. The two systems communicate over our own home-built 500Kbit/s token bus network (built with Z80 SIO chips). The system uses about 100K for disk caching, since we have plenty of memory. It might be worth saying that we started this project back in 1984. The system still works very satisfactory and is in daily use. As a matter of fact, our system averages about 80 percent *idle* time. Humans are just too slow to keep any computer busy. Of course, when you start running more than one CPU-intensive application (like an assembler, or a compiler) then they each get their share of the available CPU time, proportional to the number of running programs. But other I/O-intensive programs like text editors do not suffer from this very much. We did add a little bank switching logic external to the Z80, but that was not really difficult. It basically consists of a 16 byte memory that translates address lines A12 to A15 from the Z80 to address lines A12 to A18 on the bus (the 8th bit is used for write protect). For hardware freaks, these were just two 7485 chips and a few buffers. One thing not possible with our setup is a *secure* multi-user environment, but we didn't need that. You can do this using the more modern Z280 chip, which has the MMU built on-chip (with 3 DMA-controllers and 256 bytes of cache memory and lots of other goodies). The instruction set is upward compatible with the Z80, and has nice additions like divide and multiply instructions and lots of new adressing modes (e.g. LD HL,(SP+n) ). In fact, we have a Z280 lying in some dusty corner, but just never found the time to change our system for it. If you start building a new system, by all means use a Z280! (To me, it has always seemed a waste to use the Z280 only for a CP/M Plus system, which several people seem to be doing currently. It can do so much more!) Summarizing, I would say that almost *anything* is possible. It only depends on how much effort you want to spend on it. There are no inherent limits in the Z80 processor that would limit you. -- Luc Rooijakkers Internet: lwj@cs.kun.nl Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science UUCP: uunet!cs.kun.nl!lwj University of Nijmegen, the Netherlands tel. +3180652271 ------------------------------ Date: 22 Aug 90 14:55:36 GMT From: ns-mx!iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu!syswtr@uunet.uu.net Subject: Z80 multitask Message-ID: <1990Aug22.095536.780@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu> In article <3696@ruuinf.cs.ruu.nl>, clldomps@praxis.cs.ruu.nl (Louis van Dompselaar) writes: > Is there anyone who has had some experience in using multitasking > on a Z80 system? Please let me know what is, and what is not, possible... MP/M anyone ??? Bill ------------------------------ End of INFO-CPM Digest V90 Issue #133 ************************************* 25-Aug-90 07:31:21-MDT,10030;000000000000 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 25 Aug 90 07:15:10 MDT From: INFO-CPM-REQUEST@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Reply-To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: INFO-CPM Digest V90 #134 To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Message-ID: <900825071511.V90N134@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> INFO-CPM Digest Sat, 25 Aug 90 Volume 90 : Issue 134 Today's Topics: *** Official release of UUCP V2.1b *** SUBMIT Problem Z80 multitask (3 msgs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 Aug 90 05:00:00 GMT From: usc!snorkelwacker!spdcc!ima!mirror!pallio!dg@ucsd.edu (David Goodenough) Subject: *** Official release of UUCP V2.1b *** Message-ID: Those that have been paying attention (or who use the uucp maps for light bedtime reading :-) ) will be aware that pallio.UUCP is in fact a CP/M system. The software that provides mail and news access has been in beta test for several months, and V2.1b has now been officially released. I will be posting it to GEnie, I'll try to get a copy to Keith Petersen's Royal Oak BBS, and it can also be retrieved from the rna server here at pallio. The last three lines of this posting (below the .sig file) when sent to pallio!rna will get you what you need. Just change 'your-address' to either a bang path from a backbone site, or to an Internet style FQDN (user@host.domain type thing). And to keep bandwidth down, put all three in one letter, the server can cope with multiple requests in one message. -- dg@pallio.UUCP - David Goodenough +---+ IHS | +-+-+ ..... !harvard!xait!pallio!dg +-+-+ | AKA: dg%pallio.uucp@xait.xerox.com +---+ /send help to your-address /send index to your-address /send uucp to your-address ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 90 16:00:05 EST From: SAGE@LL.LL.MIT.EDU Subject: SUBMIT Problem David Douthitt wrote: >> I've been having some trouble with SUBMIT.COM ... He then described the problem that arises when the $$$.SUB file in A0: disappears from the command processor's sight when it is logged into a user area other than 0. There is a very simple solution. Get rid of that obsolete ZCPR30! Version 3.3 fixed that problem by having the CCP look always in A0: for the $$$.SUB file. This does occasionally cause some problems, however. Some programs (e.g., dBase) spawn tasks by writing out a $$$.SUB file and then terminating. Naturally, as conventional CP/M programs, they write the file to the current user area. Z33 and Z34 will not see the file at all. I beleive that patches have been published for some of the programs to make them write to A0:. The ZSDOS DOS path searching facility can also solve this problem (and probably ZCPR30's problem, as well). -- Jay Sage ------------------------------ Date: 23 Aug 90 17:25:03 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!samsung!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!hubcap!ncrcae!ncr-sd!simasd!simasd!pnet07!donm@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Don Maslin) Subject: Z80 multitask Message-ID: <1990Aug23.172503.18355@simasd.uucp> Or if you really want to reach for it - OASIS UUCP: {nosc ucsd crash ncr-sd}!pnet07!donm ARPA: simasd!pnet07!donm@nosc.mil INET: donm@pnet07.cts.com ------------------------------ Date: 23 Aug 90 20:02:06 GMT From: swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!cc.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!slsw2@ucsd.edu (Roger Ivie) Subject: Z80 multitask Message-ID: <31349@cc.usu.edu> In article <3696@ruuinf.cs.ruu.nl>, clldomps@praxis.cs.ruu.nl (Louis van Dompselaar) writes: > Is there anyone who has had some experience in using multitasking > on a Z80 system? Please let me know what is, and what is not, possible... I've done two multi-tasking things on a Z80. The first is that I experimented with MP/M on an Apple Softcard; I wrote a simple MP/M BIOS that simply called the CP/M BIOS. I had two jobs going: one just barely large enough to load Microsoft BASIC and the other just barely large enough to run PIP when BASIC was loaded in the other. It was lots of fun. You might still be able to get MP/M. I bought a brand new copy about a year ago, but still have yet to do anything with it. I intend to eventually get it running on my NorthStar; I seem to keep collecting bankswitched memory cards for the thing. The other thing I've done with multitasking was for an embedded system. The company I work for makes an IEEE-488 interface to the VAXBI whereon the IEEE-488 is entirely managed by a Z80 (i.e.: the VAX politely requests that the Z80 do the work for it. Not fast, but it did make the BI interface very simple. Oh yeah; the Z80 knows how to translate VAX virtual addresses; that was fun). The whole thing is written in assembler and uses a decendant of an 8080 multi-tasking kernel originally published in BYTE back when BYTE published that sort of thing. -- =============================================================================== Roger Ivie 35 S 300 W Logan, Ut. 84321 (801) 752-8633 =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: 25 Aug 90 00:35:26 GMT From: mcsun!hp4nl!phigate!philica!geertj@uunet.uu.net (Geert Jan de Groot) Subject: Z80 multitask Message-ID: <652@philica.ica.philips.nl> In article <2108@wn1.sci.kun.nl> lwj@cs.kun.nl (Luc Rooijakkers) writes: >jurjen@cwi.nl (Jurjen NE Bos) writes: > >>clldomps@praxis.cs.ruu.nl (Louis van Dompselaar) writes: > >>>Is there anyone who has had some experience in using multitasking >>>on a Z80 system? Please let me know what is, and what is not, possible... > >>Easy! We (4 friends and me) built a multi-user Z80 systems already years >>ago, featuring 512K RAM, two real floppy drives while the users thought >>they had 4 floppies each (but if you wanted to read something, you had to >>walk over and insert your floppy), 5 terminals, etc. >>The system is still running, and today they are working on a LAN, hard disk, >We did add a little bank switching logic external to the Z80, but that >was not really difficult. It basically consists of a 16 byte memory >that translates address lines A12 to A15 from the Z80 to address lines >A12 to A18 on the bus (the 8th bit is used for write protect). For >hardware freaks, these were just two 7485 chips and a few buffers. A small correction (I am the 'hardware' member of this group, hi Jurjen, Luc): I have had some requests earlier about how to do this, but (yes, I'm ashamed!) lost the Email address: We used 7489's instead of 7485's. 7489's are small, 16x4 bit wide RAMS, but very fast (1984 standards, youth scientist's budget, i.e. remove from scrap PCBs from a large electronics firm in Eindhoven). A15-A12 of the Z80 are connected to the address lines of these RAMs, giving 4Kbyte pages. The data-out lines of these RAMS (we have 2 of them, so 8 bit) are the address lines that go to the rest of the system. One line is reserved for write-protection, giving a 512 Kbyte addres space. In this address space, there is some memory-mapped I/O (a number of video displays), but there is plenty of room left for users. How does one control the RAMs for address remapping? This doesn't seem easy, but it worked out for us: fortunately, thos RAM devices have separate data-in lines. Those data-in lines are connected to the databus. If one uses the 'OUT (B),A' instruction, the CPU really executes 'OUT (BC),A', thus the contents of register C are on A8-15 of the CPU, and you can put the address of the RAM location on b4-7 of register C. Register B contains the I/O address of the RAM chip as usual, and A contains the new contents. Nice and simple. We even didn't need to use an undocumented feature of the Z80; all of this is documented and guaranteed. A Nice Thing about running a multi-user system like this is that there is always a layer 'above' your own program. If your program crashes, under the condition it didn't scribble in the I/O devices (a big no-no for multiuser of course), a special key combination is enough to 'reboot' your virtual CP/M machine; no need to re-load the operating system. The only problem is that all CP/M utilities don't know about the environment they're in and don't know they can fork() and things like that. We wrote all client-slave software ourselves, because IPC isn't defined in CP/M. But, all of the CP/M software we know of works fine on one of the virual machines of our multiuser system, and we don't have much non-standard software (only for demonstration purposes). Still a pleasure to work with! And because of the scrap material, it costed only Hfl 1000,- (can't get disk drives from scratch). Physically, it is a 19" rack more than 1.5 meter high, crammed with racks full of PCB's. It takes at least 2 men to lift it. A real monster, but nice! Why didn't we use MP/M? It was not available (as in: we didn't have a copy), and the young scientists' budget didn't allow us to buy it. We got CP/M via a machine which doesn't exist anymore (I think), and our only chance was to re-use the software that came with that machine.. Remember, this was the time that Exidy Sourcerers were Hot Machines, and we built the thing because the only Exidy we had was always busy. It serves its purpose well. Geert Jan --8<--nip-nip--------------------------------------------------------------- Geert Jan de Groot, Email: geertj@ica.philips.nl Philips ICA, ..!hp4nl!philica!geertj Weisshausstrasse, Ham: PE1HZG 5100 Aachen, West-Germany phone: +49 241 6003 714 "Programs are like waffles: fax: +49 241 6003 709 you should always throw the first one out" [Standard disclaimers apply] - Sutherland ------------------------------ End of INFO-CPM Digest V90 Issue #134 ************************************* 29-Aug-90 18:24:56-MDT,9967;000000000000 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 29 Aug 90 18:15:17 MDT From: INFO-CPM-REQUEST@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Reply-To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: INFO-CPM Digest V90 #135 To: INFO-CPM@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Message-ID: <900829181520.V90N135@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> INFO-CPM Digest Wed, 29 Aug 90 Volume 90 : Issue 135 Today's Topics: CP/M internals? How to speed up Ampro LB+ SCSI? kaypro II kaput (2 msgs) Kaypro II needs help! submit UZI-280? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Aug 90 22:27:38 GMT From: eru!hagbard!sunic!sics.se!sics.se!boortz@BLOOM-BEACON.MIT.EDU (Kent Boortz) Subject: CP/M internals? Message-ID: <1990Aug29.222738.4302@sics.se> Could someone explain to me how a typical CP/M (8085) system is working? What parts are there, and where are they (ROM/RAM/disk)? What functions do they have? How do they call each other? How is the memory organised? Maybe you can explain the boot process? What parts of the CP/M OS can I replace with freeware/shareware alternatives? Why do I ask this? I am trying to write a hardware emulator for 8085 in MC68020 assembler (just for fun) and is curious if it is possible, with not to much work, to port a CP/M system to it. The ideal case would be a OS that used the OUT and IN instructions for all communication with the hardware, except the screen that could be memory mapped. Kent Boortz boortz@sics.se ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 90 07:21:54 GMT From: snorkelwacker!usc!sdd.hp.com!mips!prls!philabs!linus!nixbur!nixpbe!peun11!josef@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Moellers) Subject: How to speed up Ampro LB+ SCSI? Message-ID: In <12835@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> wilker@descartes.math.purdue.edu (Clarence Wilkerson) writes: >Could you implement "scsi device to scsi device" transfer without having >to go through >the CPU? This is possible under some circumstances ( e.g. two disks on >same controller ), >but I'm not sure of the generality. From what I know about SCSI, I'd say it depends. (This is standard answer #75534) SCSI distinguishes between initiator and target. The initiator selects a target and then the target requests from the initiator whatever information is needed (command block, data, message) or sends to the initiator whatever information it holds (data, status, message). Usually, hosts are initiators and devices are targets. So, in order to do a "device to device" transfer, You'll have to have one device that can act as an initiator, communication with another device that continues to behave as a target. Some tape drives can do this. You just tell'em to read n blocks of data from target x and then leave it to do it's task. If You were to look at the SCSI bus, You'd see the tape drive selecting the disk, the drive requesting command blocks from the tape, then sending data to the tape, etc. Probably one or the other controller can do a disk-to-disk-copy locally, but that would be very controller specific. -- | Josef Moellers | c/o Nixdorf Computer AG | | USA: mollers.pad@nixbur.uucp | Abt. PXD-S14 | | !USA: mollers.pad@nixpbe.uucp | Heinz-Nixdorf-Ring | | Phone: (+49) 5251 104662 | D-4790 Paderborn | ------------------------------ Date: 28 Aug 90 22:25:07 GMT From: janus.Berkeley.EDU!senderow@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Dan Senderowicz) Subject: kaypro II kaput Message-ID: <38499@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> My old kaypro II just died of old age. The cpu board works but there is no video. The crt gun is cold, indicating probably that the tube is bad (filament) or something is wrong with the power supply (maybe the transformer). I would really appreciate it if anybody has the service manuals to lend thme to me so I can get a better insight of the hardware. I called Kaypro but they don't longer have anything for that machine. Thanks. Dan. ------------------------------ Date: 29 Aug 90 07:28:35 GMT From: ogicse!milton!blake.acs.washington.edu!callisto@ucsd.edu (Finn) Subject: kaypro II kaput Message-ID: <6814@milton.u.washington.edu> In article <38499@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> synchrods!daniel@janus.Berkeley.EDU (Dan Senderowicz) writes: >My old kaypro II just died of old age. The cpu board works but >there is no video. The crt gun is cold, indicating probably that >the tube is bad (filament) or something is wrong with the power >supply (maybe the transformer). I would really appreciate it if >anybody has the service manuals to lend thme to me so I can get >a better insight of the hardware. I called Kaypro but they don't >longer have anything for that machine. Thanks. You are in luck! The Kaypro machines are totally generic.. meaning they used the standard stuff of the era (except for the keyboard) and much like disk drives and PC power supplies are today, you can plug in almost anything and have it work. Specificly, the Kaypro used the Ball monitor. Not that they bought the monitors from Ball, but bought whatever was cheapest that week. You want to look closely at the card edge plug on the monitor in your machine.. you'll see there are 10 contact points and a slot cut near one end. Your local computer parts supply and junque dealer may not still know what a Ball monitor is, but if it has that same connector, it's going to work 99 times out of a hundred. Now the only trick is finding one the right size for your case.. although I have built Frankenkaypros fom junk parts and used everything from ultra small cash machine style monitors to huge 16 inch monitors. Last I bought one of these things ( a couple of years ago) the going rate was $25 for a used or grungy but workable monitor, about $40 for new surplus stuff and real nice ones maybe as high as $65. The above is an assumption that your monitor has packed it in.. the power supply is a simple 5 and 12 volt switching supply and it is pretty unlikely that it would keep the motherboard and drives happy and fail to deliver the 12 volts to the monitor only. Just to be safe, before spending any money on the monitor, make sure you have +12 on pin 7 on the monitor connector. (The connector may not be numbered, but the notch is between 9 and 10) If you are interested the connector on the monitor is as follows: 1 Ground 2 3 4 Brightness pot on 2 & 3 with wiper to 4 5 Arc Gnd (often not used) 6 Horz. Sync. 7 + 12 8 Video 9 Vert. Sync. Notch 10 Ground If your power supply is NOT making 5 and 12 volts, then it will also run you $30 - $40 if you shop around. You can use almost any reasonably rated switching power supply that will fit into the case. You may or may not have to re-do the power supply connector. Usually the outputs on power supplies are well labled. It is important to get the same voltages into the same wires. Check everything twice, then have someone else check it for you. (I once toasted 2 drives at once by sending 12 volts down a wire that turned out to want 5 volts.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 10:13:01 PDT From: rzh@lll-lcc.llnl.gov (Roger Hanscom) Subject: Kaypro II needs help! Message-ID: <9008281713.AA29044@lll-lcc.llnl.gov> Hello All -- Any Kaypro II users out there?? I've got one that acts like someone's leaning on the three key. When I power it on, the "A>" prompt comes up, but then a line and a half of threes follows. CP/M tries to interpret that as a command line, echoes it back (followed by a "?"), and then the whole thing starts again. It does this with the keyboard disconnected also. Once I got CP/M to come up clean, but then the first key I pressed filled the screen ("D" from "dir"). I've got no schematic, so I haven't much of a clue where to start to look. Anybody seen this before?? Does the keyboard (serial) go in via a PIO, SIO, or a TTL 8-bit serial shift register (74LS164 ??) ? Any comments would be appreciated. roger rzh@lll-lcc.llnl.gov rzh@icf.llnl.gov ------------------------------ Date: 27 Aug 90 13:11:50 GMT From: usc!samsung!munnari.oz.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!levels!etrmg@ucsd.edu Subject: submit Message-ID: <15284.26d91c17@levels.sait.edu.au> In article , rat@deety.UUCP (David Douthitt) writes: > I've been having some trouble with SUBMIT.COM ... > Yes you should try EX14. If you want it I got it. You could also try SUB34.LBR in pd2: on SIMTEL if you can in there. It's for the Z system of course. Also, I have some stuff for the apple with the PCPI card, a ram disk soft package and sysgen type stuff. I believe it's Ozzie stuff so you may not have it. If you're interested, let me know. I've got no use for it but upload material. What disk formats can you do? Ronn ------------------------------ Date: 24 Aug 90 11:45:24 GMT From: usc!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!lavaca.uh.edu!uhnix1!sugar!ficc!peter@ucsd.edu (Peter da Silva) Subject: UZI-280? Message-ID: In article <2825@inews.intel.com> dbraun@cadev4.UUCP (Doug Braun ~) writes: > Here is what's going on with UZI-280: [lots of good stuff] So what's the difference between UZI and UNIX? > If anyone can recommend a screen-based editor I can get source to and port, > such as VDE or VDO, that would be fantastic. There is another VI clone out there, "Elvis". Coming to alt.sources soon. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' +1 713 274 5180. 'U` peter@ferranti.com ------------------------------ End of INFO-CPM Digest V90 Issue #135 *************************************